« flotsam & jetsam (3.5.08) | Main | flotsam & jetsam (3.9.08) »

March 07, 2008

TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00d83421515e53ef00e550c642f08834

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference flotsam & jetsam (3.7.08):

Comments

AndyB

Does this headline or any of the imaginary headlines following it make any difference:


Libya blocks a United Nations Security Council resolution condemning the brutal attack in Jerusalem yesterday.

Libya refuses to block a United Nations Security Council resolution condemning the brutal attack in Jerusalem yesterday.

Libya supports a United Nations Security Council resolution condemning the brutal attack in Jerusalem yesterday.

Libya is condemning the brutal attack in Jerusalem yesterday.


I'm afraid not. The only headline I think matters would be, "Hammas attacks [insert innocent here], [insert innocent here] destroys Hammas".

This morning Israel is still supplying the same people who are celebrating in their dirty streets the slaughter of Israeli students with water and electricity.

Golda Meir said to Anwar Sadat, "We can forgive you for killing our children but we will never forgive you for making us kill your children." Compare and contrast.

It's such a shame that we can't just grit our teeth and get done what needs to be done; destroy these evil groups. Finish them.

pgepps

Sounds like there's a very important correction to be made to the reportage on that home-schooling case. LA Times, of course, has no reason to care about the details:
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZDAwMmJlMjY3ZDAwZTZiMjkwNTA2YTg4NWRhOWE2MzI=

pgepps

sigh. can never rememeber who autolinks & who doesn't. :-)
same article as above


@AndyB--
if it is (and it is) a mistake to imagine that a nation can 'behave' and be morally responsible in exactly the same way a human being can, then probably you need to work on sorting out how much of a desire to "destroy these evil groups" is appropriate concern for the well-being of you neighbors, and how much is confusion and carnal passion.

And at the same time, to the extent that our intentions and wishes through our government are still subject to Christ's instructions for our own conduct and thought, how could we dare let vengeance and vindictiveness and condemning fury be our guide.

And I ask these as honest questions, because I am one of the old-time Wahhabism Delenda Est folks, and I still hew to that, I think, mostly, at times--it is the inconsistency between that and my certainty that you shouldn't just wish sudden destruction on whole "groups" without some really careful thought and definition.

May I make a suggestion? Rather than agitating for our government to do it, let us do as King David did, and first pray that God will do it. When we think through the severity and finality of God's wrath, is it not possible that we will begin to understand how to live in a humble desire to be forgiven, and an embrace of grace that leads us to hope more profoundly for God's mercy (to convert others to objects of blessing) the more justly we beg for His vengeance?

We need to think on these things, anyway, as Christians and not mere Americans.

Cheers,
PGE

AndyB

PGE-

As a Christian I agree with your points. We should always pray to God for forgiveness, mercy, humility, patience, answers, strength, etc. With respect, I think this goes without saying. However, in the political or secular world we have a responsibility as Christians and people who stand up for “Good” to confront and destroy Evil.

I don’t believe that we, as a Christian-based society, can simply pray that God will clean up this mess. I certainly can’t work out the theology of it all but coming from an extreme layman’s point of view it may be the case that God wants us (The USA, Israel, other allies) to confront this evil behavior. This reminds me of the oldie-but-a-goodie joke about the 3 castaways who every time a rescue opportunity was presented to them, passed it up because they knew that if God wanted them to be rescued then he’d take care of it. After their demise they confronted God over why he didn’t intervene. God told them that he sent 3 ships and that they refused each one!

I’m not sure how to say this without sounding blasphemous but the King David solution might apply to a God-centered society or a chosen society that exist purely for God. Perhaps Israel could do this but in the meantime their innocent people are being slaughtered by evil people. This is nothing more than pacifism.

My points are incomplete and not supported very well and my arguments are completely flawed perhaps but I believe the bottom line is that instead of messing around with the status quo its time to start calling a spade a spade. There’s a reason that Jon included the link to the Libya story and I THINK (please forgive me if I’m wrong) that it was included to point out that once again Libya is no friend of Israel. My point is that we know that already. That’s not going to change by itself and the people who are committing these atrocities don’t care anyway. Its time that we, as a nation and world, start defending what we know to be right rather than simply declaring with a vote in the UN that we disagree with treacherous behavior.

pgepps

@AndyB--

I echo your feelings, and which is why they concern me. :-)

As a matter of policy, I have little doubt we could both agree that these two things are pretty true:

1) it is absurd that the US is propping up the Palestinian Authority financially and diplomatically, while it attacks our ally Israel, who we also support, etc.

2) if we knew where the bombs were being made, or where they launch the rockets from, I have little doubt that you or I would without a pang press the DELETE button on them.

I just suggest that we regard the imprecatory Psalms as models, not for their mildness, but for their severity--and for the reality of the God we're calling on. When you read Psalm 58, and realize that David just asked God to retroactively abort his enemies, and consider the things David *had* seen God do to his enemies, well....

I think "don't wish for someone to do what you won't ask God to do" is not a bad rule.

As for "the nations," well, "let the dead bury their dead. You come follow ME." :-)

Cheers,
PGE

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment