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January 17, 2005

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Comments

Scott M

I'll have to admit that I have from time to time dropped a quarter or two into a slot machine or purchased the occasional lotto ticket. I suppose I fall into the category of the thinking person who rationalizes his "sin" by comparing it to other more accepted forms of entertainment. The allure for me is not really games of chance like the lottery, but games of skill such as poker. Where do you see poker in all of this? It is the fastest growing "sport" in the nation. People play it in their living rooms, watch it on TV, read about it, talk about it. It's a cultural phenomenon that is becoming more and more embraced and celebrated. Certainly there is an element of chance involved in poker, and so it seems to qualify as gambling. Yet, Texas Hold-Em, referred to by some as the "chess" of poker, is at least equally a game of skill. To play it well requires a good grasp of mathematics, psychology and strategy. A skilled poker player will beat a lucky poker player every time. So skill negates the element of chance.

Poker has undergone a pretty big facelift in recent years, going from the smoky back-room of Las Vegas casinos to the lime light of ESPN. Yet, throughout American history, many of our leaders have enjoyed the game and used it to hone their intellects and develop the cool nerve to make tough decisions. Harry Truman is said to have engaged in a 12-hour poker game just prior to making the decision to drop the atomic bomb on Japan.

I suppose part of me wants to go on and on defending poker, since I enjoy it. But I'd be interested to know the opinion of someone who isn't already caught up in the craze. Let me give you the usual scenario for the types of games I've been in. Eight or ten guys get together. Each throws $10 into a community pot. Everyone is given an equal number of chips. Play commences and continues until there is one winner. We play "tournament style" no-limit Texas Hold-em. At the end of the night, the top three players receive monetary "prizes". Third place gets his money back, 2nd doubles his money, 1st takes the rest. The rest of us go home empty-handed, except for the 3-4 hours of "fun and fellowship" we experienced. I'm tempted to list all of the reasons why I don't think playing poker for money is wrong. But instead, I'll ask a few questions...

Is winning money or a prize in a game of skill different than winning money in a game of chance?

How does spending $10 to play poker for a few hours differ from spending $10 to go to a movie for a few hours? How is it similar?

How is wagering money on a lottery ticket different than choosing to buy a 12-pack of Pepsi rather than Coke because Pepsi is running a sweepstakes where you can win a new car?

If you won the car, would that be profiting from all those other schmucks that bought Pepsi for the chance to win?

Is it within the realm of good stewardship to spend some money on entertainment? If so, how do we know how much is too much to spend?

Is gambling innately sinful, or does it become sinful when practiced irresponsibly or compulsively?

I don't pretend to have all the answers.... but I'm interested to know how everyone else feels about this topic. Gambling in general and poker in particular have always seemed to be more of a gray area issue to me than a question of right and wrong. Gambling to excess certainly contributes to all the problems you describe, just as drunkenness leads to all kinds of problems. Yet, I have a hard time making a blanket statement that alcoholic drinks are innately sinful. I have the same difficulty making a blanket statement about games of chance. It seems to be more of an issue of responsible behavior vs. excessive or compulsive behavior. Eating a donut is not necessarily sinful (even though donuts are not much good for you). Eating a dozen might be. Eating donuts until you are obese and unhealthy is most assuredly sinful. The same logic seems to apply to gambling.

another pew sop

Deal...

Jeremy

I too play poker occassionally, and while I don't prefer to play for cash, I have and am not opposed to it. More on that in a minute...

Pastor, your comments about the ills of gambling cannot be argued. Many men (and women, though it seems to affect men more) have ruined their lives by gambling their income/savings/etc. It makes me wonder, though, is it the gambling that is the problem, or is it the heart of man? Your comments seem to imply that the intent of one who is gambling is to increase their finanical position. With that assumption in mind, I agree that gambling would be unwise and foolish.

But, what if that mindset does not exist? As mentioned before, I have played poker for money. There are some acquaintenances I have who will not play unless money is on the line, and while I do not completely understand that mindset, they have created a compromise - instead of playing with cash buy-ins (where you can put money in as often as you like, no-limit), there is a $10-15 buy in when we start playing, and the winnings are spread out in a fashion similar to the way Scott suggested.

In that case, my mindset is that I'm paying $15 for some entertainment with some guys I might not otherwise know very well. To me, it's more enjoyable then going to a movie (unless another LOTR comes out). But the point is that I'm not approaching the poker game as my opportunity to increase my financial position. In my mind, when I play for $15, I spend that money and have no expectations of ever seeing it again.

Another key fact in my approach to the use of money in playing a game like poker is the use my allowance. I know the concept of an allowance for an adult may seem ridiculous, but it's a great way to keep two married adults accountable with finances. Each month, each spouse receives a fixed amount that the other spouse has absolutely no say in what the other will use it for. In my case, since my wife is not with me when I play, it would be inappropriate for me to use household funds for playing poker - so I use my allowance (it's not very much, so I couldn't play very often anyway!)

So, in conclusion, I believe that games of chance are not inherently evil, but it is our own sinful hearts which corrupt our actions. That being said, I think one's choice in participating in these events is a matter of priorities, with the contingency that one's heart is in the right place.

Scott M

Did anyone watch round 2 of the superstars of poker tournament last night on Fox Sports? That's good TV... I don't care who you are. :-)

jon

I was waiting for a couple more folks to chime in here before I commented. I am no legalist when it comes to this issue. Gambling implies playing with money that I cannot afford to lose. Playing a few slots, playing poker with the guys for throw away money, buying a lottery ticket every blue moon, or tossing your hat in the work sport's pool don't count in my book. What's the difference between throwing a few bucks into a video game and throwing a few bucks into a slot machine? I sure don't see one. Both can be addicting, and one has to guard against that.

Linda and I were on vacation in Detroit last year. We enjoyed playing the slots. We set a limit (I think $20 a piece) and had a ball. BTW, I think we about broke even, or a little better. However, I sure saw how it could become a habit.

At the end of the day, it is a Romans 14 issue. Let everyone be fully persuaded in their own mind. You probably don't want to break out the poker chips at a church party, or schedule a "mission's trip" to Vegas.

Jeremy

But what if the winner of the poker party donates the winnings to the Building Fund! :)

jon

Well, then it becomes a fund raiser and we're not into that!

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